Gareth's First Time Hearing Of Noah's Flood

[dr_pretentious]

Our very kind neighbors across the street, whose charming and well-behaved children are around the same ages as my kids, turn out to be Creationists. Gareth was playing on their swingset today with their 6-year-old and his visiting cousin when we had this conversation:

HOST KID: Why do you think megalodons are extinct?
ME: Which ones were the megalodons?
HOST KID: The giant sharks big enough to eat whales. The dinosaurs went extinct because of the flood, but a flood wouldn't have killed a giant shark. So what made them go extinct?
ME: Um. Well. That's a really good question. Maybe the megalodons went extinct because their favorite food sources got too scarce? That happens to some big predators now, even in the ocean.
VISITING COUSIN: Maybe the megalodons lived too long ago...
HOST KID: Hey, you know Jesus. Stop acting like that.
ME: What was your dog's name again? Does Toby know any cool tricks?

We ended up doing Google searches on my Droid for pictures of live megalodons, because if the flood couldn't have killed them, maybe they weren't really extinct after all. Considering the worldview the kid has been handed, his efforts at making the parts fit together are pretty logical.

When Gareth and I got home, he was full of questions about the great flood, and why I wasn't worried about live megalodons. The only Noahs Gareth knew about were kids his own age. So, once I'd explained that there were lots of different flood myths and this was just one of them, I told him a story.

Once upon a time, there was a man named Noah who had just one favorite god. In fact, he liked his one favorite god so much, he didn't think any others existed, so he just called his favorite god God.

One day, Noah's favorite god got really mad because too many people were acting like meanies. He tried to tell them to stop, but they wouldn't. So the god went to Noah, who had always been a really nice guy, and said, "I'm going to drown all these people and start over. You need to build a boat for your family and a lot of animals. You need two of every kind, so there can be a mommy animal and a daddy animal and baby animals after the flood is over."

And on it went in that vein, with asides about other stories with other survivors favored by other gods, and archaeologists who think the whole thing was a result of the Mediterranean connecting traumatically with the Black Sea. Gareth was a little off-put by Noah's favorite god killing all those people just because he was mad at them.

"I think it's weird, too," I said. "But that god is a complicated guy. There are stories about him doing very kind things, too. Noah's favorite god is our neighbors' favorite god. Remember your god manners, and be courteous about your neighbors' gods."

Gareth knows the key protocols for being polite to dogs and cats, but we're just beginning to work on how to be polite about religious stuff. Don't steal the flowers from Mommy's shrine to her storytelling god (Dionysus), offer first fruits from our tomato plants to the goddess who turns yard scraps into good compost (Hekate), and when you meet somebody whose gods confuse you, say something like I don't understand, rather than something like That makes no sense. You might learn something. And it's okay if, like Daddy, you think gods are only in stories. Stories still matter.

He considered all this, and said, "What if Noah's favorite god made a very dry laser, so there could be a rainbow in the sky forever?" And then he started running laps around the living room, making up stories to himself about gods with lasers.

Comments

[fjm.livejournal.com]

That is so cool!

[onyxtwilight.livejournal.com]

I don't think I'm prepared for New!-Yahweh-with-Laser-Action. That seems like a toy that should be recalled.

But I suppose it could be worse.

[criada.livejournal.com]

Have you read "Intelligent Design," by Ellen Klages? It's one of the most adorable stories I've ever read, about God as a little boy creating beetles and stars with the help of his grandma. It is pure joy.

[tigira.livejournal.com]

When F gets into the, "Tell me a story," mode, I often switch between different myths, including some biblical stories. He understands the idea of the god that ,ost of our neighbors worship, but isn't quite sure about the whole cross thing. He gets the Star of David, though. (they have a star, just like us, but with six points instead of five or seven).

Mostly the reason I tell biblical stories from time to time, though, is that I don't want him to miss cultural cues because of ignorance. I've known too many people who grew up never knowing them, and then being pissed off that nobody told them, or that a reference was unclear because they didn't have the story in their mental file.

[dr-pretentious.livejournal.com]

My parents were horrified by my cultural illiteracy when I was 10 and had never heard of the Lord's Prayer. In our travels around Japan, they'd taught me more about Buddhism and Shinto than I knew about Christianity. We became a churchgoing family shortly thereafter, which was actually a very good thing in most ways. Oh, and as an undergrad I was sometimes mistaken for a born-again because I knew my way around the Bible.

G is just getting old enough now to be curious about religion and myth. I'd love to pick your brain more about how you've handled that with F.

[shades-of-nyx.livejournal.com]

JeWitch moment:
When Progessive Jews teach Noah, the emphasis tends to be on the Covenant of the Rainbow at the end of the story. If you miss out on teaching that YHVH was -sorry- for what He/She/It had done, after the flood, you miss the point. YHVH says "Never again!" and is capable of learning, and evolving. This is critical to my understanding of the Story. The Torah portion containing Noah is taught both in its standard place during Genesis, and again during Yom Kippur. The emphasis of teaching it twice is fascinating. Yes, G-d/Fate can be fickle. Yes, good people die, and bad things happen.

There is so much richness in these stories. Very, very, few of us believe them literally. Yet, these are the stories upon which our current civilization is based. Smiles. How will our children understand Steinbeck, if they haven't read Genesis?

[citabria]

I've never heard the Progressive Jewish take on the story -- that's fascinating and is much, much more appealing to me. I think it's a much better teaching tool, too. :)

[shades-of-nyx.livejournal.com]

That's the thing. These capital 's' Stories are our Tribal teaching tools. We are allowed to get angry, disappointed, scared, and confused by them. The key is interaction. We continue to interact with Divinity. The Story isn't over. Torah continues to be written. After all, we are "Isra'el". We are a people who, by definition, struggle with G-d.

[dr-pretentious.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad you reminded me of the importance of the Covenant. Shortly after I read your comment, he asked for the story again, so I got to add that part in. Gareth is struggling with some impressive problem behaviors right now, which you'll no doubt get to see if you make it down to Ramblewood. The idea that even a god can make a mistake, regret it, say sorry, and change his behavior fascinated him.

[showingup.livejournal.com]

The idea that even a god can make a mistake, regret it, say sorry, and change his behavior fascinated him.

I think it's a vital part of understanding our selves and how we're to interact with others. The people who forgot that god/s learn and change are missing a huge chunk of information. They tend to overlap enormously with the people who forget that a lot of the Jesus story is him really struggling with authenticity and his understanding of his purpose, freaking out, wanting to run away from it, and yet continuing to come back to centre. The idea of Jesus as some static, perfect model requires ditching chunks of the story and the implications make my blood run cold.

[citabria]

Noah's favorite god is our neighbors' favorite god. Remember your god manners, and be courteous about your neighbors' gods.

I just love this line and the concept of "god manners." Yes, of course a child growing up in a Pagan household would need to learn about god manners, right alongside dog and cat manners! It's something that never occurred to me, but that, in retrospect, is incredibly obvious. (Some adults could use lessons in that too, I suspect.) Once again, I am amazed by your brilliance and insightfulness. :)

(And if you couldn't tell, I miss you!)

[dr-pretentious.livejournal.com]

I have my moments. We're trying to give the kids good all-purpose god manners. That's one of the things my parents did very carefully when we lived in Japan--with the accidental outcome that I became a Pagan by way of secondhand Shinto. As long as the kids grow up to be kind, thoughtful people who try to do good, their eventual beliefs are their own business.

We miss you, too. Our town has suffered a significant coolness deficit since you moved away. Will we see you at Ramblewood?

[violet-moon25.livejournal.com]

It's so refreshing not to be the only parent teaching Biblical stories as just another mythology. And your emphasis on god manners is perfect. It would make a lovely poster with a collage of various deities on it.

[thunderpigeon.livejournal.com]

I just got to tell Andrew about Noah/Utnapishtim recently. I don't remember why. I like the "god manners" idea (though I think this particular story makes a lot more sense in the polytheistic version).

I saw a TV show about megalodons recently, and it seemed like there were two main explanations for why they went extinct. One was that the cooling of the oceans wiped them out (great whites have an internal heating system, but most sharks don't), the other that the small whales they preyed on were replaced by bigger whales, which (a) were harder to kill, and (b) could swim into cooler climates, where the megalodons couldn't go (again, back to the thermoregulation thing). Though I'm not sure either of these explanations would...er...hold water, with people who believe the dinosaurs died in the Flood.

If you want to see something that *looks* like a megalodon and is alive today, do an image search for megamouth. A deep sea shark that attracts prey with its giant glowing tonsils. (Nah, not tonsils. The whole inside of the mouth glows. They're really cool.) They're not as big as megalodon, but closer to the same shape than the great whites are.

[showingup.livejournal.com]

I love the idea of god manners. I think we would all benefit from a culture-wide version of god/less manners.

[jeneralist.livejournal.com]

Gareth knows the key protocols for being polite to dogs and cats, but we're just beginning to work on how to be polite about religious stuff. Don't steal the flowers from Mommy's shrine to her storytelling god (Dionysus), offer first fruits from our tomato plants to the goddess who turns yard scraps into good compost (Hekate), and when you meet somebody whose gods confuse you, say something like I don't understand, rather than something like That makes no sense. You might learn something. And it's okay if, like Daddy, you think gods are only in stories. Stories still matter.

Have I told you lately that you rock?

And yes, stories still matter, indeed. One of my favorite books for children (and the adults who read to them) is a "stories are important" story: specifically, it's the story that Salman Rushdie wrote for his son while he was far far away from home, hiding from the people who didn't like his stories. It's called Haroun and the Sea of Stories, and I highly recommend it.

[sabrinamari.livejournal.com]

Brilliant parenting!

[sabrinamari.livejournal.com]

Also, what Jen said.

[castalusoria.livejournal.com]

Thank you so much for sharing stories (and Stories) like these. I have no plans to have kids of my own, but I'm around friends' kids often, and seem to to regularly be put to "tough" or "how do I respond diplomatically?" questions. I'm always looking for ideas and examples of raising kids to be open-minded, while still answering questions in as factual, honest, and satisfying a way as possible.

I was kid-minding a while back (invited local friends to leave their 9-year-old daughter with me for the day on a Federal holiday while I was off work, and they had to be at the office), and she chose "Prince of Egypt." Being raised by Pagan/Asatruar parents, I was curious to see what discussions that would lead to, and what questions she'd ask. We had a great conversation about how history is written by the "winners;" about remembering perspective-- Moses had motivations, and so did Pharoah; why that g(G)od might have done the things shown in the movie, and how all of it compared to stories in other faiths.

... And I gave her parents a debrief of the topics we covered, in case of follow-on questions. :-)

[jasminewind.livejournal.com]

We didn't have many of these sorts of conversations with the kids until they were a little older than Gareth. I tend to describe Christianity & christian mythos more as an exotic, strange belief system than anything else, because it makes so little sense to me and I have a hard time hiding that. I do think I present it with respect but I'm also very pleased that my kids have a clear understanding of the Christian God as separate and different from our Gods & Goddesses.

I love your stories about parenting! : - )

[evcelt.livejournal.com]

Remember your god manners, and be courteous about your neighbors' gods... when you meet somebody whose gods confuse you, say something like I don't understand, rather than something like That makes no sense. You might learn something.

[here via sabrinamari]
That is so cool.
Going up as my QOTD.